Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta (The Discourse to Vacchagotta about Fire)
The Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta (The Discourse to Vacchagotta about Fire) is one of several discourse in the Pali Canon featureing the wanderer Vacchagotta. In the discourses, Vacchagotta comes across as a familiar character, one who is looking for ultimate answers to the big questions—questions about the nature of the universe, questions about the soul, questions about life and death. These are the questions that the Buddha consistently declined to answer. Within the texts of the Pali Canon, and within the Commentaries, there is speculation about his reasons for refusing to answer such questions—did he not know the answer, or was the answer so difficult that his questioner could not have handled it or understood it correctly had the Buddha given it? What seems to me most likely is that such questions, as the Buddha did say, were not questions that lead to edification. In fact, speculation on such questions leads one away from considering the questions that can be answered, questions, moreover, which must be answered, and the answers understood, if one is to approach the goal that the Buddha considered the only goal that matters—the end of suffering, for oneself and for all sentient beings.
In preparting the following rendering of the Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta, I’ve had recourse to a number of interesting English translations:
- An English translation titled “The Fire Sutta”, by Suvanirra, is on the French website of “Le Centre Bouddhiste de l’Ile de France“, in Paris. This is a relatively free translation, almost a re-casting of the discourse in modern terms.
- At Access to Insight, there is an excellent translation by Thannisaro Bhikkhu.
- There used to be a wonderful odd website called BuddhaDust, written by a man named Mike Olds, who went by the name “Ol’ begga’ Olds”. That website has been resurrected by the people at halfsmile.org, and it contains a very decent, if somewhat stilted, translation of the Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta on the page titled Buddhism in Translations – Questions Which Tend Not to Edification.
- On the Sri Lankan website Mettanet-Lanka, there is a thorough, if again rather stilted, translation by Sister Upalavanna
- I also used Bhikkhu Bodhi’s very helpful translation in The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha: A Translation of the Majjhima Nikaya (Teachings of the Buddha)
Finally, I spent a great deal of time working through the Pali text of the sutta, using the Pali Text Society’s online Pali-English Dictionary to tease out a meaning for those terms to which the various translators seemed to give significantly different English equivalents.
The result, I hope, is a reasonably accurate rendering of the sutta, in the sense that its meaning, both overall and in each specific point, is faithful to the meaning that the words would have had to the Buddha’s audience. I’ve also tried to make the text readable, by summarizing or otherwise condensing portions that are so repetitive in the original that they would tend to put off a modern literate audience, and by choosing words that are familiar enough so that most readers will know them, but which, in this context, take on a new depth of meaning that they may not always have in casual discourse.
This is what I’ve heard:
At one time, the Fortunate One was staying in Savatthi, in Jeta’s Grove, at the retreat given by Anathapindika. The wanderer Vacchagotta then approached the Fortunate One, exchanged courtesies with him, and sat down at his side. Sitting there, he asked, “Now then, Gotama Sir, about this view: ‘The universe is eternal—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this the view held by the honored Gotama?”
“It is not so, Vaccha, that I hold the view, ‘The universe is eternal—this is true; any other view is worthless.’”
“So, Gotama Sir, then this view: ‘The universe is not eternal—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“It is not so, Vaccha, that I hold the view, ‘The universe is not eternal—this is true; any other view is worthless.’”
“Well, Gotama Sir, consider this view: ‘The universe is finite—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“It is not so, Vaccha, that I hold the view, ‘The universe is finite—this is true; any other view is worthless.’”
“So, Gotama Sir, then this view: ‘The universe is infinite—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“…not so, Vaccha…”
“Well, Gotama Sir, consider this view: ‘Soul is one with body—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“…not so, Vaccha…”
“So, Gotama Sir, then this view: ‘Soul is different from body—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“…not so, Vaccha…”
“Well, Gotama Sir, consider this view: ‘The Tathagata exists after death—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“…not so, Vaccha…”
“So, Gotama Sir, then this view: ‘The Tathagata does not exist after death—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“…not so, Vaccha…”
“So, Gotama Sir, then this view: ‘The Tathagata both exists and does not exist after death—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“…not so, Vaccha…”
“So, Gotama Sir, then this view: ‘The Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist after death—this is true; any other view is worthless.’ Is this view held by the honored Gotama?”
“It is not so, Vaccha, that I hold the view, ‘The Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist after death—this is true; any other view is worthless.’”
“How is this now, Gotama Sir: when we presented the view, ‘the universe is eternal’ and asked if the honored Gotama held that to be the only true view, Gotama Sir answered, ‘not so, Vaccha’; when we presented the view, ‘the universe is not eternal’ and asked if the honored Gotama held that to be the only true view, Gotama Sir answered, ‘not so, Vaccha’. Just so with our other questions. We asked whether the honored Gotama held the view that the universe is finite, whether he held the view that the universe is infinite; we asked whether he held the view that soul was separate from body, or the view that soul and body were one; we asked whether he held the view that the Tathagata exists after death, or whether he held the view that the Tathagata does not exist after death, or whether he held the view that the Tathagata both exists and does not exist after death, or the view that the Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist after death, and in every case, Gotama Sir answered, ‘It is not so, Vaccha, that I hold that view to be true and all others to be worthless.’
“What danger does the honored Gotama perceive in all this that he entirely avoids these views?”
“‘The universe is eternal,’ Vaccha; that is groundless speculation, a thicket of speculation, a wilderness of speculation, a discord of speculation, a tortured contortion of speculation, a shackling chain of speculation. It leads to suffering, to vexation, to dissatisfaction, to frustration and and to fevered imagining; not to disenchantment, nor to dispassion, nor to cessation of craving, nor to calm, nor to seeing directly, nor to awakening, nor to nibbana. “
“‘The universe is not eternal; the universe is finite; the universe is infinite; soul and body are one; soul is separate from body’—all those views, as well as views regarding what happens to the Tathagata after death, are groundless speculations, leading one into the wildernes, into discord, into tortured contortions, into shackles. Each view leads to suffering, to vexation, to dissatisfaction, to frustration and and to fevered imagining; not to disenchantment, nor to dispassion, nor to cessation of craving, nor to calm, nor to seeing directly, nor to awakening, nor to nibbana.”
“Does Gotama Sir hold to any views at all?”
“‘Views’ Vaccha, are what a Tathagata has abandoned. Vision arises in a Tathagata, so: ‘this is form; this is how form arises; this is how form disappears. This is feeling; this is how feeling arises; this is how feeling disappears. Just so, this is perception, this is the working of the mind, this is consciousness; and this is how each of those qualities arises; this is how each disappears.’ And so, a Tathagata, through the ending, erasing, ceasing, renouncing, and relinquishing of all constructing, all imagining, all I-making, mine-making, conceit of self, with nothing left to cling to, requiring nothing for sustenance, is released.”
“But, Gotama Sir, the bhikkhu who is thus released, where does he reappear?”
“‘Reappear,’ Vaccha, does not apply.”
“So, Gotama Sir, he does not reappear?”
“‘Does not reappear’, Vaccha, does not apply.”
“Then, Gotama Sir, he both appears and does not appear?”
“‘Both appears and does not appear’, Vaccha, does not apply.”
“Then, Gotama Sir, he neither appears nor does not appear?”
“‘Neither appears nor does not appear’, Vaccha, does not apply.”
“How can this be, Gotama Sir? We asked, about the bhikkhu who had attained release, where he reappeared, and you told us that those words did not apply; when we asked if the bhikkhu did not reappear, or if he both reappeared and did not reappear, or if he neither reappeared nor did not reappear, in every case the honored Gotama answered, ‘those terms do not apply.’ Gotama Sir, I am confused and befuddled. I thought, when you spoke before, that I was beginning to understand, but now I am back in the dark.”
“Vaccha, your confusion and befuddlement is completely understandable. This Dhamma is profound, hard to grasp, smooth and exalted, beyond purely logical thinking. It is subtle, to be experienced by those with wisdom. For someone like you, who has taken a different way, who has practiced a different discipline and comes from a different direction, it won’t be easy to grasp.
“So, Vaccha, I will now question you; reply as you see fit.
“If a fire is burning in front of you, Vaccha, would you know, ‘A fire is burning in front of me’?”
“Gotama Sir, if a fire were burning in front of me, I would know, ‘A fire burns in front of me.’”
“If you were asked, Vaccha, about the fire burning in front of you, ‘Dependent on what, does that fire burn?’, how would you reply?”
“If I were asked, Gotama Sir, ‘Dependent on what, does that fire burn?’, I would reply, ‘The fire burns depended on sticks and dry grass.’”
“Vaccha, if the fire in front of you goes out, would you know, ‘This fire in front of me has gone out’?”
“Gotama Sir, if the fire in front of me were to go out, I would certainly know, ‘This fire in front of me has gone out.’”
“If you were asked, Vaccha, about the fire that has gone out, ‘In which direction did that fire go—to the East, to the West, to the North, to the South?’, how would you reply?”
“Gotama Sir, that does not apply! That fire burned dependent on sticks and dry grass; when they were used up, Gotama Sir, with nothing left to sustain it, the fire just went out.”
“Just so, Vaccha, just so it is with the Tathagata. Any physical form which one might have seen in the Tathagata or recognized him by, that form has been abandoned, left like a palm stump, its roots destroyed, with nothing to sustain it, nowhere to reappear. Free from the complications of form, the Tathagata is deep, without limits, beyond comprehension, like the great ocean. ‘Reappear’ does not apply; ‘does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.
“So it is with feeling; any feeling which one might have seen in the Tathagata or recognized him by, that feeling has been abandoned, left like a palm stump, its roots destroyed, with nothing to sustain it, nowhere to reappear. Free from the complications of feeling, the Tathagata is deep, without limits, beyond comprehension, like the great ocean. ‘Reappear’ does not apply; ‘does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.
“So with perceptions, with the working of the mind, with consciousness. Any of those qualities which one might have seen in the Tathagata or recognized him by, that quality has been abandoned, left like a palm stump, its roots destroyed, with nothing to sustain it, nowhere to reappear. Free from the complications of all qualities, the Tathagata is deep, without limits, beyond comprehension, like the great ocean. ‘Reappear’ does not apply; ‘does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply; ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.”
When this had been said, the Wanderer Vacchagotta said to the Fortunate One, “Gotama Sir, it is as if there were a great sala tree near a village or town. Subject to impermanence, its branches and leaves would fall and break off, its bark would wear away, its sapwood would decay, so that, in time, without branches, leaves, bark, or sapwood, it would stand as pure heartwood. Just so, the honored Gotama’s discourse has shed branches, leaves, bark and sapwood and stands revealed as pure heartwood.
“Magnificent, Gotama Sir, magnificent! Just as if he were to set right what had been overturned, to reveal what had been hidden, to show the way to one who had been lost, or to hold a lamp high in the darkness so that those with eyes to see can distinguish forms, just so has the honored Gotama, coming at it from many different angles, made clear the Dhamma. I go to the honored Gotama for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha. May the honored Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge, from this day and for life.”
Vacchagotta appears a number of times in the discourses, always in a similar role, questioning the Buddha about things that the Buddha has not declared because those things have nothing to do with the central matter of dukkha, its cause, its cessation, and the path leading to its cessation. At the end of the Mahavacchagotta Sutta (Majjima Nikaya 73), Vacchagotta requests full admission to the sangha; after that admission, and his full ordination by the Buddha, he acheived awakening and became one of the arahants.
. The Pali “bho gotama” is usually translated “Lord Gotama”, but that has religious connotations that I want to avoid. “Gotama Sir” is appropriately formal, but clearly more secular.
The term I’ve translated as “the honored Gotama” is, in Pali, “bhavaṃ gotamo“, which is usually translated either as “the Blessed Gotama” or, once again, as “Lord Gotama” or simply “the Lord”. Again, I think that the word “honored” catches the meaning closely, it differentiates the term clearly from the term that Vacchagotta uses when he is addressing the Buddha directly, and it avoids the religious connotations.
